his conviction as you say. then he was rehired by "news of the world". >> do you believe he conducted illegal activities on behalf of "news of the world"? >> i can only come men what i know and i don't know that. >> what is your belief? >> i don't know. >> you don't know what he did? >> i don't know what he did for "the news of the world", i'm sorry. i don't know what he did. >> did you not think would find it incredible as chief executive of the company that you don't know? >> well it may be incredible but again, it is also the truth. i heard about jonathan rees rehiring by "the news of the world" by an investigation conducted by panorama. >> did you ever have any, did you ever have any contact directly or through others with seat whitmore? >> what did you do with him. >> steve whitmore was one of the private detectives. i said i think he formed the major of part of operation motorman. as he said --

>> what steve whitmore did i like to know what you did with him. >> i'm sorry. >> i like to know what you did with him? in the main, my use of private investigaters to while i was editor of "the news of the world" was purely legitimate and pursuit the main as you know for the addresses and whereabouts of the convicted pedophiles. and that is my majority use of, >> the suspect that the "news of the world" also used private investigators for stories. >> are you aware that steve whitmore looked up do you her. >> i wasn't aware of that until two weeks ago. >> you are now. >> why did you order a mobile conversion from steve whitmore. >> as i said, eleven years ago i've answered this question many

times, but just to repeat, a mobile conversion which is finding an address from a mobile phone, that is what a mobile conversion is, and can be got through legit nat means. in fact the story that you're referring to, the mobile phone was a business number and the address was widely known. >> so you can remember what the story was, then. >> i just said to you -- i read it in "the new york times" he's been named by the guardian in the new york times. what i'm saying is that when i use -- the very few occasion tph-s which i used a privatinwhe detective. >> can you name other private detectives you've worked with. >> no. >> you can't remember them. >> no. >> use of private detectives

other than jonathan rees, and glen m mull claire. >> the first time i heard of glen mull claire was in 2006. you have the same information that i have which i. >> one last question. do you have any regrets? >> of course, i have regrets, but the idea that milly do you her's phone was accessed by someone from "news of the world" or paid by someone from "news of the world" is as abhorrent to me as anyone else in this room. the ultimate regret is the speed with which we found out and the

investigation has been too slow. i think james and rupert accepted that earlier. we are endeavoring, they are even deaf sroerg now, i've left the company, to continue to investigate. of course there were regrets. >> thank you. >> the culture of hocking, blogging, and to what extent the "news of the world" felt justified in its practices, because everybody was doing it if you like. i put to him that piers morgan now a celebrity anchor on cnn says openly in his back which was published before the whole controversy broke that he had hacked phones, he won scoop of the year for a story.

he gave a tutorial on how one accesses voice mail by punching in a set before code, and clearly from the account that he gives he did it routinely with the daily mirror, and it was something that happened at the daily mirror. he was also an employee of news international. you talk about operation motor man and the different amounts of use by steve whitmore, and i went through the information commissioners report and i added them up. for transactions in the daily associated newspaper groups there were 1,387 transactions with mr. whitmore used by 9 # journalists in that group. is it not obviously the case then that blogging, hacking, the use of private investigators for elicit and licih purposes was an

actual culture and the "news of the world" participated maybe with a sense of entitlement, the same entitlement that mr. morgan uses in his book, because everybody else was doing it, is that not the case. >> look, we'v particularly, i tk this committee held an inquiry into the operation which was incredibly extensive. every single letter from fleet street was called to this committee. as far as i was concerned the failings of all these papers in not understanding the extent of the use of private investigators across fleet street was held to account then, and there were many changes because of operation motor man to the data perception abt. and although i accept the knowledge of the observer, it's

far better than mine, they did a very good editorial on this i think about three months ago, sort of addressing, again, readdressing that khraoeup at then and how different it is now. >> in the committee in 2003 conclude thred was widespread evidence that despicable practices across the media including payments to the police, i appreciate the legal sensitivities involved in this discussion but i'll put you the to you any way. in your evidence in this committee in 2003 you asked if you paid the police, you said we have paid the police in the past. if i may suggest to you the manner in which you said that, you said it as though we had paid the policemen in the past the implication being as do all tabloid newspapers. in your general knowledge were payments to the police widespread across fleet street or were they confined? >> if you remember the evidence

i gave in 2003, that it was actually i was going onto explain my comment. as you know mr. bryant was asking me to explain my comment, and the actual session ended. in 2003 straight after my comment about payment to police was in fact clarified, i think the les hinton who was the chairman at the 2007 inquiry clarified it again and i clarified it recently to the committee at the end of march i think. now i can say that i have never paid a policeman myself, i've never sanctioned or knowingly sanctioned a payment to a police officer. i was referring, if you saw at the time of the select committee recently that you had various crime editors from fleet street discussing that in the past payments have been made to police officers.

i was referring to that wide held belief not widespread practice. and in fact it's been my experience with dealing with the police the information given to me comes free of charge. >> mr. baker in the parliamentary committee yesterday stated that to his knowledge the daly mail has never published a story based on hacking, this from a group that operation motor man identified as 1,387 transactions against it's titles. do you think it is credible that all those 1300-plus transactions were licitely obtained or is there this wider cultural of hacking and blogging. >> i think you have seen all the

media groups in this country that news international has been the one to openly welcome the prime minister's public inquiry, which i think will be all the street practices. we haven't got the parameters yet. the fact is i'm not here in a position to comment on other newspaper groups. like i said at the beginning, things went badly wrong at the "news of the world" and we are doing our best now to sort it out. and i accept with not the speed that this committee would have wished, mistakes have been made but we are trying to put them right. i think operation motor man is important that there was a select inquiry, a select committee inquiry. and it is properly right that the code of conduct of journalists and the ethics of journalism are in constant review, because if they are not the freedoms that this press enjoys, which i believe in very strongly, if there is not constant review of conduct and

ethnics, then they are at risk. >> one final question. your performance with the committee to, you were willing to attend. you appeared to put emphasis whatever "news of the world" did it was wide of a part of a wider culture. if you knew these practices were going on elsewhere how could you not know that they were going on at "news of the world." did you undertake some investigative branch into "news of the world" instead of waiting for these thins to drip out? >> i think going back to 2002, 2003, all the changes to the data protection act, the fact is

there was change at a result of the select committee inquiries and the result of the office reporting into privacy. there was fundamental change across newspapers, and particularly like i said i was then editor of the sun, and i can say absolutely that the sun is a very clean ship a great newsroom, and in particular the operation motor man referred to the "news of the world." >> thank you. >> miss brooks, rupert murdoch in his evidence session said the responsibility for the closure of "news of the world" laid fairly and square leon the management of the newspaper, which would include you. is that the case?

>> i think i may have missed that part of the evidence. i think mr. murdoch said is exactly how it was. it was a collective decision. we all talked together, and mr. murdoch was in with the board at the time, >> yes, rupert murdoch, yes. >> during the private session i think you said something like there was more to come. would you like to expand what you meant by that? >> when i went down to the newsroom to explain the decision, and clearly and quite rightly the journalists on the "news of the world" who are very honorable and journalists who will been putting out a newspaper under the scrutiny for a longtime and with great pride

in their newspaper were very sad and baffled by management's decision to close the paper. what i was saying to them is that right now you may not be able to right at this moment understand why we've done it, but i think i said in a year's time i think you will come to the realization that we actually did the right thing. once you have broken the trust with the readers there is not much going back. unfortunately the "news of the world" used toead the headlines for the right reasons, the cricket scandal recently, but for the last few months and probably actually for the last few years it's been leading the headlines for the wrong reasons. and once that trust was broken we felt that that was the right decision. it wasn't the right decision for the hundreds of journalists who worked on that who had done nothing wrong, and who were in no way responsible, many of them

had spent years at the "news of the world" and are not culpable for anything and we have endeavored to find a job for every single one of them, and they will be offered a job. >> i accept that. it just wasn't journalists, it was secretaries, engineers, you all expect to find them jobs. >> everybody. >> what do you anticipate will happen in a year that you don't know now? >> well as i've said, part of the problem with this story is the lack of prove built of the documentation seized from glen mulcaire in 2006. we have no visibility on it, you have no visibility on it only the police have visibility on it. and they are conducting a new inquiry, and i'm sure that -- they will go through the thousands and thousands of documents that they say are

there, and i think we will in a year's time, maybe even longer, we will actually get to a final decision on what exactly happened. >> could i ask you just a couple of questions. a question to you, james murdoch, during the course of last year you gave evidence under oath on two occasions that email was relating to a case. [unintelligible] trying to protect the surveillance phone hacking could not be retrieved bass they were lost in some black hole in mumbai. that is not the case. >> i think actually what he was referring to initially what we'd had with our suppliers and i think i'm correct in thinking the information, commissioner

had actually put out a clarification and explained that there were no issues and that they were entirely comfortable with international's response to that. >> do you know who gave them that information that the emails were lost. >> i don't know. >> [intelligible ] >> sorry? >> the emails have since been retrieved. the defense team still hasn't received them. any ideas why? >> i think actually the clarification from the information commissioner was in fact that what had happened was as the editor of the scottish "news of the world" had made a comment during the trial which had been interpreted as you are saying now, but actually when he looked into it and asked news international for an explanation it was actually a problem with the -- with our suppliers in india, and so there was no such retrieval. >> have you been in contact with andy coulson during the sheraton

case? >> i think andy was -- andy coulson was in downing street during the sheraton case so i would have had. >> did you have direct contact a? email, letter -- >> i would have had contact. >> email? just a conversation? >> it was mainly to do with work, and by email or by telephone. >> just of couple of final questions. why were you paying andy coulson's legal fees and glen mulcaire's legal fees during the sheraton case? >> as i understand it i know james murdoch could address this. when andy coulson left the "news of the world" he had an agreement that all matters relating to this. his legal fees, were paid. and i think the same for clive

good man. on glen mulcaire his legal fees would be paid when he was a codefendant in the civil cases. >> are you aware of any payment to police officers. >> no. >> okay. >> i have questions about the milly do yo dowler. "news of the world" during milly dowler ab suction and murder. i have specific questions i'd like to ask you about this. could you paint a picture for us about how a newspaper like the "news of the world" goes about reporting on such a big story, what the level of editor, deputy editor, the senior reporter would be in putting together and overseeing a story like that? >> i think any big story, but for the purpose of process, most stories start out with a

reporter, and that reporter may be being asked by the news editors to go and investigate a story, or they may have brought information about a story from their own contacts to the news editor. it is at that stage in a newspaper where the reporter and news editor discuss the veracity of the information, go out and check the allegations, and come back with a more considered view. you can imagine that every newspaper gets a lot of information to the news desk, and only a percentage, very small percentage makes it actually to publication. so there are many layers from reporter, to assistant news editor, to news editor. finally, this story will go to the back bench which will be the people that will oversee that story and often talk to a reporter directly with questions and amendments to the copy. the lawyers are involved at this stage, throughout the process and then finally the final decision on publication will be made by the editor.

obviously milly dowler's disappearance was a terrible news story and it would have been covered by all newspapers, and for a very longtime. the trial only finished last month. >> let's call it something like this. would it be normal to expect that it would have been the editor or a senior member of the editorial staff on-duty that day, the lawyers that would sign off on anything we've written about it because of the incredible sensitivity of the material? >> that is true, yes, on any story, but particularly as you say on such a sensitive story the lawyers would be heavily involved and talking to the reporters and to the news 0 editors, or the news editors, and the executives on the news desk as to where the information came from, or what the veracity of that information is. >> how involved are you personally in the milly dowler

case in the news world? >> as i say the story ran for a very, very longtime, and so i will have been involved in the story over the many years. i mean even when i was editor of the sun, you know, the milly dowler investigation, and the pursuit of justice for milly dowler has been in the news for many, many years, nine years. >> the milly dowler case was a story you were more heavily involved in than other stories that took place during your editor ship because of the magnitude of the events, the shock and horror of what had happened? >> not particularly any more or less involved. the one thing i would say, that we had had a series of terrible and tragic news stories, sara

pane and milly dowler's disappearance and subsequent murder, and then of course the stone cases. part of my main focus of my editor ship of the "news of the world" was in convincing parliament that there needed to be radical changes to the 1997 sex offender act which became known as sarah's law, which was very similar to laws imposed in america under megan's law. so i suppose that if i had a particular extra involvement in any of those stories it would have been on the basis that i was trying to push and campaign for readers writes on the ten pieces of legislation that we got through sarah's law and just campaigning for those to be put forward. >> when you give evidence in 2003 you referenced the milly

dowler case as an example of how the press worked particularly well with the police and family, and that was a view that was agreed to. is that something you stand by now? did you have -- you spoke about it when you gave evidence. did you have particular knowledge of the details of the case? >> when i spoke about it in 2003 i was unaware of what i now know, however in 2003, as far as i was concerned, which may sound in light of what we believe the allegations are now, it may sound, quite frankly ridiculous, but at the time i believed that based on the milly dowler case, and the stone cases that the press had exercised huge caution and tried to respect the privacy of the family. for example, i remember one member of the press association was sent to go to the village,

and i was referring to that fleet street had actually come together and used the press complaints commission code and adhered to it to respect the privacy of the families. clearly these allegations that came out two weeks ago, if true, are appalling and contradict the statement i made. >> in the context of what we know now it does appear ridiculous, to use your words. when were you first aware that milly dowler's phone had been hacked? >> i think it was last monday, no, maybe the monday before. >> that was the first knowledge you had of it? >> i heard of it when the story broke at -- at first broke in the media i think on monday evening. >> nothing in the "news of the world" to suggest that milly dowler's phone was hacked or carried out by "news of the world." >> of course not. >> were you aware that people at "news of the world" may have

gave this information to the police, information about about what milly dowler was saying to support their investigation. >> again, i'm going to have to be slightly careful but i want to be as accurate as possible. we saw the story at the same time you all saw the story. my instant reaction, like everybody else, was one of, you know, shock and disgust, and that a family had suffered so much already, and had these allegations clearly added andee mestotheir suffering. the first thing i i did is i wrote to mr. and mrs. dowler and we would get to the bottom of the allegation and if anyone at "news of the world" or authorized by journalists at "news of the world," which i find staggering to believe, and

i have ever confidence that news international and the police will get to the bottom of this as a priority. >> i appreciate the statement here. the question was about when you were aware of the information that was passed to the surrey police that resulted in the hacking of milly dowler's phone. if it is the case that people at "news of the world" personally sanctioned this this. and decided of their own volition to pass this information on to the police, that is what you're asking us to believe, am i right in saying that? >> you're saying pas passing itn to the police. >> information that was received, from "news of the world" relating to the hacking

of milly dowler's phone to support their investigation, you said the first you knew about that was on -- when it was reported in the newspapers. what i'm saying is, it musting the case therefore that someone without your knowledge who was an employee of yours at "news of the world" decided without talking to the editor, or maybe did consult to pass that onto the police. is that -- is that the case? is that the chain half events? >> i think -- i understand the question, i think it's important to say that obviously the milly dowler news story went on for many years, and i had been editor of "news of the world" and the sun while the investigation was on going. what i thought you were referring to was when did i first hear and allegation that milly dowler's phone or voice mail had been intercepted by either someone working for the

"news of the world" or authorized by someone at the "news of the world," and the first time i'd ever heard that was two weeks ago. >> right. the information was imparted to the police about hablgin hackine phone. >> i wrote the surrey police. my first protocol was to send milly dowler's family an apology on behalf of news international and assured them we would get to the bottom of it. representatives met with milly dowler's family lawyer almost immediately to get some more information to see if there was anything we could do, look for or assist in this case. and the third thing i did was write to surrey police to say that obviously in the last nine years, if they had come across any information that supported these allegations could they please either give it to the metropolitan police or share it with the management, the

standards committee at international. i had a response from surrey police, and at the end of last week, which is that because it was part of a criminal investigation they couldn't help me. >> one of the things i want to get to is it would seem i think to us incredible that potentially, aled lee someone employed at "news of the world" would take the decision themselves to pass information on to the police relating to information they held however obtained as a result of a news investigation they were part of and they didn't consult the editor, didn't consult many members of staff. that seems incredible. >> but your allegation is that -- if your allegation is that someone on the "news of the world" knew that they had themselves, or authorized someone to access the voice mails of milly dowler, and that they then told the police that they had accessed milly dowler's

phone and passed on your information, is that the allegation? >> what we're saying, the change of events which links the hacking of the phone alleged by someone won at "news of the world" to the passing of the police about what was on david lee miller lee dowler's phone. martha: president obama is starting a press conference. we go to him. >> over the course of the weekend. and continued to urge both democrats and republicans to come together around an approach that not only lifts the debt ceiling, but also solves the underlying challenges that we face when it comes to debt and deficits. some progress was made in some of the discussions, some narrowing of the issues. speaker boehner and the republican house caucus felt it necessary to put forward the

plan that they are going to be voting on today. i think everyone's estimation is that that is not an approach that could pass both chambers. it's not an approach that i would sign and it's not balanced. but i understand the need for them to test that proposition. the problem we have now is we're in the 11th hour, and we don't have a lot more time left. the good news is that today a group of senators, the gang of six, democrats, and republicans, i guess now it's a gang of seven because one additional republican senator added on, put forward a proposal that is broadly consistent with the approach that i've urged. what it says is, we've got to be serious about reducing discretionary spending, both in domestic spending and defense. we've got to be serious about tackling healthcare spending, and entitlements in a serious way, and we've got to have some

additional revenue, so that we have an approach in which there is shared sacrifice, and everybody is giving up something. and, so, for us to see democratic senators acknowledge that we've got to deal with our long-term debt problems that arise out of our various entitlement programs, and for republicans senators to acknowledge that revenues will have to be part of a balanced package that make sure that nobody is disproportionately hurt from us making progress on the debt and deficits i think is a very significant step. as i said, the framework that they put forward is broadly consistent with what we've been working on here in the white house, and with the presentations that i've made to the leadership when they've come over here. here is where we stand. we have a democratic president, an administration that is prepared to sign a tough package

that includes both spending cuts, modifications to social security, medicaid, and medicare that would strengthen those systems, and allow them to move forward, and would include a revenue component. we now have a bi-partisan group of senators who agree with that balanced approach. and we've got the american people who agree with that balanced approach. my hope, and what i will be urging speaker boehner, nancy pelosi, as well as leader reid and mitch mcconnell, is that they, tomorrow, are prepared to start talking turkey and actually getting down to the hard business of crafting a plan that can move this forward in time for the august 2nd deadline that we've set forward. just a couple other points i will make. some of you may ask, what does

that mean for the plan that senator mcconnell and senator reid have been working on? our attitude is that that continues to be a necessary approach to put forward in the event that we don't get an agreement, at minimum we've got to raise the debt ceiling. that's the bare minimum that has to be achieved, but we continue to believe that we can achieve more, and so i want to congratulate the gang of six for coming up with a plan that i think is balanced. we just received it, so we haven't reviewed all the details of it. it would not match perfectly with some of the approaches that we have taken, but i think that we're in the same playing field. and my hope is that we can start gathering everybody over the next couple of days to choose a clear direction, and to get this issue resolved. so far, at least, the markets

have shown confidence that leadership here in washington are not going to send the economy over a cliff. but if we continue to go through a lot of political posturing, if both sides continue to be dug in, if we don't have a basic spirit of cooperation that allows us to rise above immediate election-year politics and actually solve problems, then i think markets here, the american people, and the international community are going to start reacting adversely fairly quickly. so i think it's very important in these next couple of days to understand we don't have any more time to engage in symbolic gestures. we don't have any more time to posture. it's time to get down to the business of actually solving this problem, and i think we now are seeing the potential for a

bipartisan consensus around that would take. it will be hard. it will be tough. there is still going to be a lot of difficult negotiations that have to take place in order for us to actually get something done, and as i said, we have to have that failsafe that senator mcconnell and senator reid are working on. but the hope is that everybody seizes this opportunity. all right. okay guys. i'm going to let jay answer questions today. i think i've been pretty good to you guys. martha: we are going to keep an eye on jay carney east answers some of those questions. this was a short of hastily announced appearance by president obama moments ago at the top of this news conference. he clearly wanted to get in there and be on the record. we're going to go back to president obama. let's do that. >> as i said, i think what you're going to be seeing is an evaluation of that plan versus the things that we've been looking at. i think what you're going to see is some significant overlap, but obviously just because we might

agree in principle with a range of issues with six senators, or seven senators, that doesn't get us out of the house of representatives, that doesn't get us out of the senate. there is going to have to be a broader agreement on the part of awful the leadership that we're going to get this done in a serious way and we've got a tight deadline to do it. all right. thanks, guys. martha: it looks like he wasn't going to take any questions. then he ended uptaking one at the last minute there. what is getting all the attention this afternoon is this gang of six that's got even together in the senate and has put their arms around a plan that would basically have 3.7 trillion in cuts and one trillion that would come back into the coffers due to revenue changes and eliminating tax loopholes. a lot of specifics on this. we will get this on "america live" from senator tom coburn who is the one who just rejoined this group and that really put all of this in motion the fact that he rejoined the group and it gets very serious now in terms of a possible plan.

the president said that the mcconnell plan and harry reid plan, that they are working on is still on the table as a last-ditch effort. but he seemed somewhat positive about this. we'll talk a little whao*eul with little while with abunch og major garrett about what all this haoepbs and where we go from here in the effort to raise the debt ceiling by that august 2nd deadline. the on going hearings that we are watching for the "news of the world" newspaper in britain with rebekah brooks testifying continues. and we want to take you back there for the time being. then we'll get back into the debt discussion with senator tom coburn here a little while from now. for now let's go back here. >> i can't comment on what who know it, when they know it and how they knew it. i can only tell the committee what i knew while i was editor of "american's newsroom" and editor of the sun and my actions

trying to get to the bottom of this story. in 2006, from my own personal point of view i was the editor of the sun, and i had been approached by the police to explain the nature of access on my own voice mails and i reported that back to the company and was exempt from any subsequent investigation. i just remained editor of the sun. when i became chief executive in 2009 that's when i started to pick up much more responsibility of how we acted, and getting to the bottom of this story. >> can i just move onto milly dowler. after that story, which was the straw that broke the camel's back finally, your company on your behalf i assume was very quick to distance you from being anywhere on the premises at the time that particular story was run, but they said and it's been

questioned in these papers that you were on holiday at the time. is that the case? >> it's slightly irrelevant where i was. i was the editor of at the time. if that happens then it's appalling. i didn't know it was happening. >> it's not irrelevant, because they distance you from it. they've put out a statement or talked to the press, it's been reported that you were on holiday at the time. >> there were no statements about me being away at the time. you said a statement. we didn't put out a statement. the actual fact was i was a way for the stories that i was talking about. i feel as editor that is irrelevant. i was the editor of the paper, and therefore ultimately it happened on my watch. >> who handled the paper when you were away the deputy. >> the deputy editor.

>> who was that. >> andy coulson. >> andy coulson was the acting editor while you were away. >> presumably. i actually don't know. >> you saw the exchanges over the email, the sheet of paper that was found that was residing for a longtime in the offices of harbottle & lewis that gives life to the evidence that we received previously about the results of a huge email troll which arrived. clearly that was still sitting there when you became the chief executive in 2009, so that was -- it was all commissioned before your watch but it's sitting there on your watch. james murdoch said he first learned about it in april, may, and it was passed to the police in june. what did you first learn that that evidence was there? >> just before james murdoch, and i then went to tell him what we'd found.

>> did he report the find to you. >> as you know we have this management committee that we set up and after the police opened their investigation in january 2011. obviously it was our investigation that led to the opening of that inquiry, the information that we gave to the police they then opened it and we subsequently set up a management standards committee in order to tp facilitate the police with any information they requested or anything that we could proactive lee find to help them. as part of that disclosure, and as part of the references made to the internal investigation into harbottle & lewis the police -- as part of the reference the police asked and the management standards committee about the harbottle & lewis, we went off to look for it, we then found it, and as i

think james murdoch said in session, we told counsel about it and handed it over to the police on june the 20th. >> this troll didn't involve just "news of the world" because it was over seen by news international people. people who reported to you as chief executive. in particular john chapman. can you remember what conversations you had with john chapman after this evidence came to light? because we've heard from rupert murdoch that john chapman sat on that for years. >> the original inquiry in 2007, i believe was instructed -- >> we know the background, i'm just asking you about when the evidence came to light through your committee did you have -- and john chapman is the news international legal director who reports to you, can you remember

what conversations you had with him. >> yes, i can. obviously we discussed it. as soon as it came to light, i think it was in the end of april, and that i was told about it, that mr. chapman was asked his knowledge of it, and why it hadn't come to light before. and the management and standards committee -- >> what was his response to you? >> his response to us at the time was that he was off to do an investigation into the illegal interception of voice mails, that he felt that he -- he felt that the harbottle & lewis recommendation, which was the letter that you have got. >> very misleading letter. >> he felt, as our legal adviser that the letter from harbottle & lewis was -- >> got you off the hook. >> no, was an accurate review of

the harbottle & lewis file. that is something that clearly you've heard today by james murdoch that he thought it was on examination. >> did he just -- >> do what, sorry? >> did he just clearly get holt r-r to issuharbottle & lewis toa misleading evidence, to sit on evidence that gave lies, to get everything off their own backs? >> harbottle & lewis are a very respected law firm. i'm not sure that it's fair to accuse them of -- >> i'm not. i'm asking about john chapman who reported to you. >> you said -- you asked if john chapman. >> did he take the decision not to disclose anything any further? >> you asked if john chapman had asked harbottle & lewis -- >> i asked you what he said to you. >> yes, but you also said, did john chapman ask harbottle &

lewis to write a misleading letter. and my response to that question was that i think that, firstly, as to harbottle & lewis they are a very well respected legal firm and i'm sure that that won't be the case, and john chapman has been a very respected lawyer with international for many years and i'm sure would absolutely not have done that. however, in light of what we know now, when i and the management standards committee at international saw that file, we felt that it was, from our perspective, put a new light on information that we had had in the past, and we handed it over to the police. >> i didn't ask that question, but it would have been a very good question to ask, so thank you. why did john chapman leave the employ of news international. >> as you heard in the previous session that john chapman wanted

to leave and we felt that under the circumstances that that was the right course of action. >> because john chapman has come out very strongly in this session and he acted alone did he not. >> i think at the time that john chapman, who is a corporate lawyer, and daniel cloak who was a head of hr, i think that they would -- they if called to this committee, that in their experience and their knowledge and when they looked through the file and felt that the harbottle & lewis letter was correct. >> okay. i've got just a couple of final questions. the silence eye cross fleet street apart from a few newspapers. the garden, the independent and the ft and "the new york times" in the coverage of this affair,

can you remember calling any editors after the guardian story in july 2005 to discuss how they might cover or not cover the story in order to downplay the coverage? >> in 2005. >> in 2009. after the guardian broke the story. do you recall calling around editors to -- >> no. >> to encourage them not to give the story any play? >> i don't remember calling him about it. he and i would talk about industry matters on occasion, but, you know, i only knew what i had read on the guardian. >> and the final question, do you recall a conversation with boyce johnson during which he asked you what you wanted out of this and your response was for allen to go down on his knees

and beg your forgiveness. do you recall that conversation? >> absolutely not. >> i have no questions. thank you. in his intervention in the house on the 6th of july you referred to the fact that part of the "news of the world" -- he suggested that they left a message on the voice mail after the 13-year-old vanished at 4:00pm on march 21st. on march 27th after milly went missing the agency had paged a friend via mobile. given the importance of the milly dowler story and the seriousness of that which has been alluded to, is there not a question, did you ask a question about how you managed to get that information? >> well, as i said, i mean the

most important thing i think in the milly dowler -- in the case of milly dowler is that we get to the truth of these allegations as quickly as possible, and i think that those who were culpable of that, if that is deemed to be true should face not just a disapproval but deal with the criminal justice system. i have to be careful of what i say because of what i know in the coming investigations. the fact is, and i can only keep saying this. is that the suggestion that milly dowler's voice mail was intercepted by someone working for the "news of the world" or someone on the "news of the world" was unknown to me. it's abhorrent to me, and that's all i can tell you. >> i accept that. i will push a little bit further, just trying to understand the fact that there

was a specific reference in the story. i'm just surprised that -- if you'd like more questions -- i fully accept that you find it abhorrent. >> just accept that perhaps, and nine years ago when the story was run i'm told now that the story you're referring to was a single column on page 9 of the newspaper of that edition. i am sure questions were asked about where that story -- that information came from. they will be asked of the reporter, or they will have been asked of the news editor. the night editor would have checked them. the lawyer would have checked them and there would sr-pb a process around every story whether it's a single column or the front page. there would have been something around where that information came from. and i can tell you now that it would not have been the case that someone said, oh, yes, that came from an illegal voice mail interception. it seems now that it's

inconceivable that people didn't know this was the case, but at the time it wasn't a practice that was condoned or sanctioned at the "news of the world" under my editor ship. that's all i can tell you. >> mr. watson also went onto say, talking about he suggests that you were present at a meeting with scotland yard when police officers conducted a murder investigation providing you with evidence that your newspaper was interfering with the pursuit of justice. he mentioned alex marancak, and a member of the metropolitan police. can you tell us more about that meet stph-g. >> i can tell you something about it, but i was asked to recall a meeting that i'd had at scotland yard in 2002, and i

had -- i was asked recently i think by channel 4 if that story was referring to my information. and my recollection of that meeting was entirely different. my recollection of the meeting was on a completely different subject. and so i'm only going on what i was told by channel 4. they say it's a meeting in november that i had, that was what was put to me. i checked my diary as much as possible and there was no meeting in november. however, there was a subsequent meeting in very early january. it may be that it was that meeting. that was not my recollection of the meeting. but on the other hand because of the sarah's law campaign i did have some pretty regular meet inch at scotland yard.

>> he says he relies on his lieutenants, who would you trust? >> i think the newsroom, and any newspaper is based on trust. if you think about -- i'm sure mr. ferry will agree with this. if you think about the way a story gets published, of course it's on trust. and you rely on the people that work for you to be to behave in a proper manner and you rely on the clarity of information that you were given at the time. so that is why i can be so absolute with the committee today about the interception of milly dowler's voice mail from my own personal view, again not commenting on what other people knew at the time. to really say who derives trust the whole newsroom and the whole basis of the newsroom is based on trust. for example, at the sun if trevor who is my political

editor came to me with a story, i knew it could be true. i didn't need to ask which mp or which cabinet minister had leaked him the story, i just knew it to be true because of the standing that he has and his experience as a journalist. again you could say that is based on trust. but that is how it works. >> and in a statement about the milly dowler statement, from what you now know that you didn't know before do you think people are likely to be convicted of crimes? >> again that would be slightly -- none of us here should be judge and jury. i don't think i should answer that. >> okay. who else knows what you now know who either still works at news

international or has left its employ in the last month. it seems there's been a team that has been put together. who could you say has done that? or left its employ in the last month. it seems there has been a team pulled together. who could you say has done that? >> the process of the criminal investigation started when we hand over documentation that we had found. all that documentation has been shared with the managements and standard committee of news international and james and rupert murdoch referred to reporting directly to the board of news corporation. they are independent from news international for that particular reason. the legal team work on this know about it and the his are aware of everything that we are aware. >> just to clarify, would that group of people include anyone who has previously given

evidence,. >> probably not, no. the management and standard committee was concerned with -- was about the current management. it's chief executive and my current executives would know about it. >> the final question for me. do you have regrets about the headlines you have done. you have been in the spotlight yourself and subject to quite a lot of media spotlight. does this make you regret any one at all? >> i don't think you find any editor in fleet street that didn't feel that some headlines they had published they made some mistakes. and i'm no different. there have been mistakes. on the other than, i'm -- despite as you say being in the spotlight recently, and having

read lots of criticism that many justified and lots of criticism that's totally pure was, i would defend the right of the free express throughout my career. and yes it hasn't been particularly pleasant. it was one of the main reasons i wanted to leave. i felt i was detracting from the amazing journalists and all the people who work in news international. i felt i was detracting from their incredibly good work. we have a very robust and diverse press in this country covering all second trucks and all opinions. and i think that the freedom of that press should be insured forever more. >> thank you. >> how many times would you speak to rupert murdoch when you were chief executive of news international?

>> i would speak to mr. murdoch and james murdoch much more regularly sense i have become chief executive than i did when i was editor. >> once a day, twice a day? >> james murdoch and i have offices next to each other but this travel schedule because of his wide responsibilities, i would talk to rupert her duck quite regularly. >> once a day, twice? >> average every other day, but pretty regularly. >> you said news of the world *, every one was work hard to get them a job and make sure they didn't lose it. which ised a miles an hourable. why is that not the same for tom crohn? you said his job no longer existed that news of the world.

why is -- why have you not found a job for him? >> there were some people that didn't want a job. in the case of tom krohn. his title was news international legal manager. he was as mr.shir -- as mr. hers mr. sheridan pointed out, he worked as the legal manager for the news of the world and the legal teams on all the other newspapers. so that was the current situation with tom. >> can i just ask you about nevelle thurback. did you know that he was a -- somebody who was an informer to the police? >> no.

>> you didn't know he was a police informer. >> no. is that true? >> it many in the evening standard. they quoted -- they quote a court report dated back to 2000 when he said himself after a case that the police were very impressed about the type of intelligence i was coming up with that was revealed in court and the judge said it was a substantial volume of information that was extremely useful to the police. it says sources people right at top of new news international we aware of his role with the police. >> i was not aware nerks velle was a police informant. >> that comes as a shock to you? >> you are telling me now. i'm not even sure what it mean particularly. if you are asking me about the -- do members of the press and members of the police force have a symbiotic relationship of

exchanging if for public interest they do. i'm not quite sure what the word police informant means. >> the allegation is that he passed a substantial volume of information that was extremely useful to scotland yard and in return he returned dozen of items of confidential items from the police computer. >> i don't know about that. most journalists who work as a crime editor or you know a crime correspondent have a working relationship with their particular police force. >> when our report was published in early between whe in materiau were chief executive of news international, we reported we found the evidence from news international was wholly

unsatisfactory, the collective amnesia. has been passed on to us, we refer to the nevelle email in there. when you were chief executive of news international at the time that report was published, did you read the report we published? >> yes, i did. i read a large majority of it. i particularly read the criticisms that were addressed to the company. i can only hope that from the evidence that you have heard from us today that we have really stepped up our investigation and, you know, that rupert and james murdoch have been here today being very open and hoffest with you as a committee. i was willing to come despite the fact that there are some

legal issues around what i say. i hope that you think when we saw the civil disclosure in december 2010 we acted swiftly and promptly to deal with it. the police investigation would not be open there. there would not be a new criminal inquiry if it hadn't been for the information news international handled over. i'm not saying we haven't made mistakes. but we -- but the metropolitan police have repeatedly said as you heard last week, the committee heard last week, they said there was no need for further criminal investigation. so i think that everyone involved in 2007 would say now that the mistakes were made. but i hope that you feel we have responded appropriately and responsibly season we say the information in 2010.

>> there are some thing here that don't stack up. we might not have any evidence. this is the sort of thing that's not quite right. did that prompt any activity on your part as chief executive of news international to say let's go back over this because there is something not right here. >> everyone at news international has great respect for parliament and for this committee. to be criticized by your report was something that we responded to, we looked at the report. about it was only when we had the information in december 2010 that we did something from it. you heard today from rupert murdoch who said this is the most humble day. we come before this committee to try to explain openly and honestly what happened. of course, we were very unhappy

with the criticisms this committee found. we aspire daily to have a great company. and your criticisms were felt. >> could you tell us how often you either spoke to or met the various prime ministers since you have been editor of the news of the world and how often would you speak to or meet tony blair, gordon brown and david cameron respectively? >> gosh. on the prime minister -- on the prime minister david cameron, you know, we have met -- what i read the other day we have met 26 times. i don't know if that is absolutely correct. i can do my best to come back to you on an exact number. i'm sure it is correct if that's what the prime minister's office say. the fact is i have never been to

downing street while david cameron has been prime minister. yet under prime minister gordon brown and tony blair i did regularly go to downing street. >> how regular is regularly? >> on prime minister gordon brown in the time that he was in downing street, and while he was -- also while he was chance lower, i would have gone maybe six times a year. >> with tony blair? >> probably similar. in the last few years a little more. but if you want the exact numbers i can do my best to get that. but strangely, it was under labor prime ministers that i was a regular visitor to downing street and not the current administration. >> do you think that there was a change of emphasis when you were the chief executive of news international in that it always

struck me that the news of the world, has been an anti-establishment kind of publication. it always seemed the paper that was on the side of the little person fighting the establishment. would you say when you became editor and your relationship with those prime ministers, there was a shift in actually the news international became parts of the establishment as opposed to being anti-establishment? >> considering the amount of complaints i used to get from both prime ministers about the coverage in the "sun" they would say that many not the case. one of the main campaigns we have had is for help for heroes. i think the "sun" is the paper for the military and that caused to us have very, very uncomfortable conversations particularly with prime minister gordon brown.

and one of the issues that still is apparent today as it was back then is the lack of awareness of other aspects of the media and of parliament to acknowledge that currently we have soldiers fighting in afghanistan a war. and people don't seem to forget that. so i would not say that any prime minister would think the "sun" was not fighting for the trite people. the "sun" continues to fight for the trite people. >> how often would any of those prime ministers ask you as editor or chief executive, how often would they ask you not to publish a story? would they sort of ask you to spike a story? would that happen? >> i can't remember an occasion when prime ministers asked us not to run a story. >> or politicians generally? >> no. i would say that i can remember many occasions when cabinet

minister or politician or prime minister was unhappy with the stories western were returning. but not that they ever pleaded for it directly not to run. >> if they had you wouldn't have been interested? >> as long as the story was true and accurate there is no reason for the prime minister. that's exactly why we have a free press. >> the final question, the thing i'm feeling that in some way that you had a close relationship with the prime minister. the current prime minister. i think the allegation goes -- seems to me it's no different than your relationship with previous prime ministers. but for the benefits of what people may perceive. you had a close relationship with the prime minister, that was helpful to him and news

international's support to him was helpful flits cal. would that grease the wheels for the takeover of b. would you encouraged to get closer to the prime ministers with that in minds? >> no, not at all. i have read many, many allegations about my current relationship the prime minister david cameron including that my extensive horse riding with him every weekend up in oxfordshire. i have never been horse riding with the prime minister. i don't know where that story came from. i was asked three days ago to disclose the racehorse that i owned with the prime minister, which i do not. if i was asked a week ago to explain why i owned some land

with the prime minister, which i do not. so i'm afraid in this current climate, many of the allegations that are putting forward -- i'm trying to answer honestly. but there is a lot out there that just isn't true. in particularly around this subject of my relationship with david cameron. the truth is, he is a neighbor, and a friend. but i deem the relationship to be holy appropriate. and at no time have i had any conversation with the prime minister that you in the room would disapprove of. >> a newspaper reported you advised david cameron not whom to appoint as a press spokesman and suggested it should be andy coulson. >> i also red that.

>> what was your reaction to that story. >> i think it's a matter of public knowledge that it was george osbourne's, the chancellor's idea that when andy coulson left news of the world, they should start discussions whether he would be the appropriate person to. the first time i heard of his -- him being approached was from andy coulson and not from the prime minister. >> you had no conversation with david cameron. he wasn't prime minister at the time. >> the answer is the allegation which i have read is that i told the prime minister to hire andy coulson and that is not true. never was true. and the idea came from george osbourne. >> so you had no conversation with david cameron about andy coulson being suitable for that position. >> no. >> none whatsoever.

>> no. you are talk about before his appointment? no. >> you presumably would in a social contexts swap gossip with david cameron when you meet. and that gossip could actually be having been obtained by illegal means. are you satisfied that your dealings with david cameron before and after the becoming prime minister the sort of gossip you might share was above fault? >> i hope my earlier assurance that in any social encounters i have had with the prime minister, any conversations were wholly appropriate. as his position as prime minister and my position as

chief executive. >> did you have approve the subsidizing of andy coulson's salary after he left news of the world? >> that's not true. the -- so i didn't approve it. >> so the "new statesman" report is inaccurate that his salary is not being subsidized by news international. >> that is correct. they are incorrect. >> i have one final small the question. >> would you agree miss brooks part of the public concern is about the closeness of the police and now politicians to news of the world and news international? >> i think the public's concern and overwhelmingly is the -- on the interception of voicemails

is the idea that anybody could intercept the voicemails of victims of crime. i think that's their overwhelming concern. >> there has been concern voiced over the closeness of the police and politicians and news of the world and news international. would you agree as a matter of fact? >> i have seen the news of the world has been singled out for that closeness. and i think if you were going to address it and you know this more and anyone on the committee because of your career as a journalist. it is wholly unfair in discussing the closeness of police and politicians with the media to single out the news of the world. >>it is a fact this has been a criticism, why it on your watch as chief executive of news international managed a triple whammy. you employed the former director

of prosecution prosecutions to . and while he was the dpp, along with his successor, ken donald house not approve critz civil for rubber stamping the police approach to the inquiry, do you think that was an error of judgment give up the circumstances. >> just to clarify the ken mcdonald issue. he was hired by news corporation. and he has been is russ in his separation of payments to police and the illegal inception of voicemail. he's not comment on the illegal interception of voice mail. if that conversation has arisen he has withdrawn himself from the room and the conversation. so i hear what you say.

>> you can forgive shaking their heads. >> i can forgive people shaking their heads if they believed the question you put to me is true. but if people understand he was hired by news corporation, not news international. he's reporting directly to the board and only discussing payments to police officers, then i don't think people would shake their heads. he has been rigorous in not involving himself in the illegal interest sense of voicemails. >> unless you have anything else you would like to add. >> just one thing. i know you have heard unreserved apologies from rupert and james murdoch. i want to redirect my own. the most important thing that i feel going forward for the investigation is to discover the allegation, the truth behind the allegation, particularly for the

families. but i would like to make one request to the committee that when i'm present from some of the legal constraints at the time today you will invite me back so i can answer in a more folsom way. >> i thank you for your willingness to come and the what your willingness to answer our questions. martha: rebekah brooks wrapping up her testimony after speaking for an hour 45 minutes. she answered questions. she is the former chief executive of "news of the world." she was speak being her role and what she understood and what she knew and when with regard to the phone hacking investigation that has been shake up the united kingdom. welcome to "america live."

i'm martha maccallum in for megyn kelly. we just watched three hours of testimony today. rupert murdoch along with his son james and miss brooks, they all answered questions about how reporters for the news of the world * publication hacked phones and paid police to get information. this is an ongoing investigation and as miss brooks just said not all of the facts are out there in an accurate way. the hearing broke up at one point during mr. murdoch's testimony when a protester ran towards him and threw what's believed to be a pie in the face. mr. murdoch's wife wendy, she threw in a punch to defend this man who we understand is a 26-year-old comedian in the u.k. amy kellogg has been tracking this hearing.

she joins us live from london. quite an event. >> it's been quite a long day for all of the people involved. now, first all, i want to add to what you said that rebekah brooks who was arrested sunday is under certain legal constraints and her parting words to this committee were that she would like to come back and answer more fully some of the questions once these legal restrictions are lifted and once her court case has seen its way to completion. she hasn't been charged with anything. but she was arrested and she is out on bail. she claims she was the editor of the news of the world at the time of some of the most sensitive cases of this moan hacking. she said she had no knowledge that went on at all. but when it was his turn to testify rupert murdoch said he still believes have much in her and has faith in rebekah brooks.

he believes in her and she answered questions before this committee. also important to note in 2003 when phone hacking came to the fore. she said news of the world did make payments to police and that's another allegation that has come back to haunt news corporation. but this time she took herself out of the equation saying she had never been involved in that. >> i have never paid a policeman myself, i have never sanctioned a payment to a police officer. >> reporter: are appearance before the cultural committee followed that of rupert and james murdoch. a median with what appeared to be a foam pie, his wife stepped in to slap him down. this came 2 1/2 hours into a

hearing that was only supposed to last for an hour but lasted for three at the beginning of this events today. rupert murdoch expressed how he was feeling and what his mood was like. >> i would like to say one sentence. this is the most humble day of my life. >> reporter: he also said that he had no knowledge of the phone hacking that had gone on at news of the world. beyond the cases that were wrapped up in 2009, nor any hacking by news corp journalists into the phones of 9/11 victims. >> as far as we know, the fbi haven't sitar. >> reporter: the bottom line is rupert her doc rupert murdocn james who was based in london at the time. often rupert murdoch tried to

defer to james. but they both said they were terribly sorry for any wrongdoing, but that they didn't have knowledge of things that had happened after 2009. they said they felt let down by the people they trusted who had gone on to hire people they trusted and basically there was a lot of disappointment among them all. martha: thank you very much. amy kellogg with the latest on that. now we are moving on. we have new numbers that show that we are not making flog the battle of the bulge. obesity actually on the rise. as we hit a dubious milestone. plus a bizarre string of events at estate of a pharmaceutical tycoon. first his girlfriend was found hanging from a balcony. then his son fell down the stairs and died. new developments in this investigation and brand-new questions about what happened

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than 4 days to the friday deadline. a bipartisan group of senators announced a plan that includes trillions in budget cuts and a major overhaul of the tax code. we are waiting for a key vote in the house on cut, cap and balance. it requires the federal government to balance its budget every year. it limits spending to 20% of the gross domestic product and it requires a super majority to raise taxes. republicans believe they have enough votes in the house to pass that. but the president spoke to reporters at the white house, he says that will be no deal, if fit lands on his desk he will veto that. he sounded like he was getting behind this new plan from the senate. >> the good news is today a group of senators, the gang of six, democrats and republicans. it's now gang of seven. one additional republican

senator add on put forward a proposal that is broadly consistent with the approach i urged. it says we have to be serious about reducing discretionary spending both in domestic spending and defense, we have to be serious about tackling healthcare spending and entitlements in a serious way, and we have to have additional revenue so that we have an approach in which there is shared sacrifice, and everybody is giving up something. martha: major garrett is here with us. great to have you here. welcome. so this is interesting. the president was not expected to be at that news conference. then we got word he had a statement to make. he seems to be getting behind the work of this gang of six or seven if lamar alexander is parts of it. what is his plan? >> there are many components. 50 senators look like they are

interested in this. it takes 60 votes to get anything done. it looks like a panic situation where in case of emergency break glass. let's talk about taxes. this would collapse our six rates currently running from 10% to 35% to three rates. the exact rates aren't determined. 8-12, 14-22, 22-29. there will be lower rates for everyone there are that plan. it would get rid of the alternative minimum tax but it would impose higher costs on those who receive social the security benefits by rehe line can the consumer product index to change cpi. so a lot of changes in there. $500 billion in spending cuts in the next 5-10 years. and unspecified entitlement cuts later. no structural reforms on medicare and medicaid. and i there will be things on te

left they don't like and things on the right. it's a tax cut but there is also tax increases. so this might pass the senate bottom line. but i think it would be a problem in the house. this is a brand-new proposal. house republicans haven't endorsed it. they have a plan that's much, much different from this. martha: isn't part of the revenue increase a damage in the corporate tax structure and eliminating loopholes. there have been a lot of republicans who say why not just allow these loopholes. get rid of these loopholes some of these corporations will have -- the government will have an increase in revenues. >> the current tax rate is 35%. this would lower it to 29%. and get rid of some tax

loopholes. and it says it would change the structure for mortgage deductions and charitable deductions. not eliminate them, but change them. make them less generous. so there will be alterations in tax code. a lot of these details have yet to emerge. right now they are theoretical. until people see the financial implications. the left will not like this change to cpi alteration because it will change and reduce social security benefits. in this plan they have a 5-10 year butter to protect current social security recipients. they may not like the fact that the corporate rates go down and individual rates go down and there is not a higher tax component. the right may not like the changes to get rid of some of the mortgage ducks. and the process reforms are to be dealt with later. and republicans want process reforms now. they want the emphasis on the

bias in the federal government up front. they are after he frayed if you raise the debt ceiling you are give up a promise of process reform which may not come. martha: then you are into the next election cycle. >> the reason john boehner stepped away from the deal was because of tax reform. what you sign on for originally is what you end up with. what you are promised later you may not get. fan. martha: in terms of p.r. for the president. one of the initial questions that came out of the press conference is this now the president's plan? is he signing on to this? >> he's giving it public encouragement. the president doesn't have a plan. he's looking for that in case of emergency break glass, too. because he doesn't have a plan,

he never has had one. he put together a budget that only lasts a month. he has been backtracking on this debate throughout. but i would say the past two weeks he said, look, i need to go big but the politician quoant go and follow me that i'm not to blame. the bottom line is this default has to be avoid. the debt ceiling has to be raised. this is a promising program. it has 60 votes. martha: it sounds like there will be some kind of deal here. and maybe that's wrat market is up. coming up we'll talk about the heat out there. we have coaching temperatures getting so bad in some states they are setting off smoke sea

harms in some people's house. 13 deaths are attributed to this brutal heat wave. we are told it's pushing up over the 90-degree mark. lookal aught these states except alaska and washington. how many will see temperatures over the 100-degree mark by day's end. it's bake the highways in minnesota. lock at these pictures. buckling under the heat on the interstate in minnesota. now there are serious concerns over water use. experts in oklahoma are considering rationing because supplies are being overwhelmed. chicago is also bracing for a week of blistering temperatures. new warnings it's dangerous just to go outside. residents are doing everything they can to beat the heat. >> it's hot. it's supposed to be 107.

it feels like 207 in them houses. >> no air conditioning? >> no air-conditioning. i'm about to pass out in all that heat. i had to get my granddaughter a fan. >> reporter: all you can do is come out here and sit. >> this is the best we get. >> my shirt looks like this, i said i'll go for the rest of the hour. >> the water was great, we jet skied, played some volleyball. martha: janice, what the outlook for all this? >> reporter: a lot of people are saying its many july, it's supposed to be hot. but no, no, this is dangerous deadly heat. not only temperatures in the 90s and 100s. the humidity is something we typically see in the tropics. your body cannot sphungs outdoors with heat indifficult

seals over 100 degree. over two dozen states affected by some sort of heat advisory. here are your current temperatures. you factor in the humidity, it feels like. 107 in davenport. 109 degree in peoria and these areas don't typically see this type of heat. a lot of folks don't have hair conditioning so this is potentially deadly weather. the dew points, the moisture content in the atmosphere. when you see dpts in the 70s and as it, that's what you see in the tropics. it's rare to see these dew point temperatures. this is continuing throughout the workweek and into the weekend. a lot of folks need to take precautions. janice, thank you very much. in the meantime there are brand-new numbers on the obesity crisis in this country coming

out today, and they show the problem is getting worse across the country. for the first time ever all 50 states are reporting high obesity statistics. john, what is this report from the cdc really telling us? we are work on john's signal. we'll be back in just a moment. in the meantime sometimes size doesn't matter. we are going to stay with this. we are going to talk about poco the crime-fighting dog. see how two armed robbers were month match for this little guy. this is a great story. stick around for that. we'll be right back with more. ♪

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sifting through dozen of clues in two bizarre deaths in a san diego area mansion. the plans girlfriend was found hang from a balcony and his 6-year-old son haas found dead after he fell downstairs. >> it could be as simple or horrible as an accident and suicide. stay with us on the time line. last monday this 6-year-old son of a ceo of a former pharmaceutical company. his 6-year-old son max falls down the stairs of his smangs just across the bay in san diego, an area where moments are multi million dollars homes. he falls down the stairs, that was monday. two days later his girlfriend is

found hanging from a balcony at his home. they are hands and feet bound and his brother adam finds her hanging there and she is pronounced dead. sunday that 6-year-old son dies in the hospital from this injuries. so investigators are now saying the son's fall down the stairs was an accident, a horrible accident and those injuries eventually led to his death. they are not sure about the 32-year-old girlfriend. they are saying it could be suicide even thought it appears it may be something more sinister because in the past they have dealt with suicides where people have bound their hand and feet. however, they are saying it's suspicious at the same time. it's one of these stories that has everybody talking in san diego. investigators say they are not going to release the 911 tapes as they go forward with this investigation. the ceo was not there when his girlfriend was found hanging. she was there when the young boy

fell count stairs. his brother was the one who found her flaingt balcony. he was staying in a guest house outside of the mansion. at this hour there have been no arrested and authorities are saying it could be an accident and suicide. but they are not ruling out the possibility of foul play. martha: let's bring in former detective rod wheeler. i know you have been looking into this story. let's talk about the 32-year-old girlfriend. according to the reports she was supposed to be watching this little boy when he fell. she is found with her handle and feet bound, naked, flank a balcony. how would someone do that if they wanted to commit suicide that way? >> in the many years i have been investigating homicides,

suicides and suspicious deaths. i have never seen a case of suicide in which an individual bound their hands and feet with electrical cord. and a different type of rope was used to hang herself. i doubt very seriously if this is a suicide. there are only two times that we see a person bound their hands and feet in a suicide. one tonight's a sexual fantasy death or two which is more interesting, i have seen cases where people committed a homicide and then they would actually stage the victim to make it look as though the victim hung themselves. but what the bad guy doesn't realize is the autopsy will clearly show whether this was a suicide or a homicide because of the markings on the insides of the neck. not the outside of the neck. martha: you say in a typical hanging there are fluids that start to pool around the ankles.

so that will come out in the autopsy as well. let's talk about the tragedy at the loss of this little boy. 6 years old. very unusual for a child that age to fall down a staircase and die. >> i don't buy the fact that this was an accident either. one of the news station on the west coast posted a picture of the stairwell that this kid fell down. if this picture is accurate. this stairwell is carpeted. that's going to cushion the blow. one other thing that we can tell in the autopsy is whether the injuries sustained by this 6-year-old child was the result of a fall in which you have rolling injuries or if he was some type of sudden impact. maybe gashed him on the head and threw him down the stairs to make it look like an accident. martha: thank you so much.

martha: three minutes from now a stung report on the growing obesity he dem next united states. that's coming up. hey, the new guy is loaded with protein! really? 25 grams of protein. what do we have? all four of us, together? 24. he's low fat, too, and has 5 grams of sugars. i'll believe it when i--- [ both ] oooooh... what's shakin'? [ female announcer ] as you get older, protein is an important part of staying active and strong. new ensure high protein...

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martha: we have brand-new numbers on the obesity crisis and it showed the problem is getting worse across the country. for the first time ever all 50 states are reporting high obesity statistics. john roberts is live with this story. tell us about this report. what does it say? >> reporter: there is bad news on a couple front. the last two shoes in the battle against obesity against obesity have dropped. colorado and the district of columbia were the last two remaining showedouts. here is the headline.

all 50 states and the district of columbia have obesity rates higher than 20%. here is the troubling news. the graphic you see on the screen, those are states that have above a 30% rate of obesity. three new states have been added to the rolls. michigan, south carolina and texas. nearly a third of residents are obese. and there are all sorts of economic and health problems that come along with that. obesity leads to heart disease, hypertension. and the centers for disease control estimates those healthcare costs are $147 billion a year for people who are obese. martha: the interesting thing is often when you see a nationwide campaign against something you start to see those numbers decline in the country. but it's bent opposite. there has been a focus on this in the last 10 years. >> that's what's so puzzling and

trouble being this. let's put up a trend map. the first sunscreen is from the year 2000. all that blue and a little bit of peach. no state has an obesity rate of above 25%. look what happens over the course of the next decade. all that filling in as the nation gets heavier and heavier. experts say it's portion size, a lack of access to good food and lack of exercise and people are eating out more often than they have in the past. what areas in the country ared the? the southeast leads the way followed by the midwest, the northeast and the west. we should point out that still the united states counts as the most obese country in the world followed by mexico and the united kingdom. we have had such a focus on obesity. there are so many programs trying to combat it, obviously more needs to be done. martha: john roberts in atlanta.

poco is the size of a sneaker and he weighs less than a bowling ball, but some burglars town out this little guy's bite is a lot worse than his bark. >> i think i'll put a cape on him. he finally earned his keep. captioning made possible by fox news network bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... ...by keepinmy airways open... ...a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintence treatment that does both. and it's eroid-free. spiriva doesot replace fast-acting inlers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor right away if your breathing suddenly worsens,...

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martha: and he may be little but armed robbers were no match for paco, the crime-fighting chihuahua. trace is live with this story for us. >>trace: the theme of this is, we could be the fattest country on planet but we have skinny dogs that are tough as nails. this is a 6" tall chihuahua and armed robbers stormed into a smoke shop. she come in with guns, with a backpack. tell the guy to fill the backpack. the guy has the shotgun.

look at paco, the guy runs back over, grabs the cash, and he does walk out and he didn't really stop the crime from happening, but, boy, they were not about to get away without a few bites and he chased them out into the street nipping at their ankles the entire time but paco got his revenge. listen, now, to the owner of the dog. >> i sought video and when i saw them pointing the gun at paco it sent a chill down my back. he was a rescue dog, so, everybody rescue a dog from the pound. you never know when you will need him. >> owner rescued the doc, the dog rescued the owner and the dog goes up and down the business area and visits all the businesses and we do in the know if he is patrolling or visiting the neighbors and he gets a lot of notoriety today in that area of southern